As you know, Maple Sandbox is a gathering place for us to come together to share, learn, explore and grow together.
To stand up to IRS bullies, we need information as quickly as it becomes 
available. We need to learn from each other around the world.
I hope What’s New will be a building block for sharing those stories from the media or your own experiences.
What’s New will allow you to post articles under one central thread, rather than spreading them out through many different threads. It also will give you the opportunity to share any other information you have with others.
Of course, some news and information will have still have threads of their own.
Please share your news, scoops and ideas.
What's New?
Published by
on
679 responses to “What's New?”
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@Arctic: IRS (I love the name used there too, although I personally prefer International Robbery Society) and US Treasury are claiming it is not a delay. They are calling it a “transition.”
Professor Allison Christians on her blog calls it the FATCA non-delay delay.
As she, Arthur Cockfield, Murray Rankin, Nathan Cullen and Scott Brison have pointed out to the Cons, this non-delay delay means there is absolutely no reason to rush through the Implementation Act for the IGA. Remove it from the omnibus bill and as Scott Brison says get a “better IGA.”
Schubert has also urged the NDP and Liberals to use the constitutional challenge in the US as another weapon to delay or kill the IGA. I have added to his suggestion that the legal efforts in the US is from Republicans Abroad–more closely aligned with Canada’s Cons.
When I told the Cons we want Parliament to speak for Canadians, one of them said “That’s why we signed the IGA”. So, that is how they are speaking for Canada and Canadians–by rolling over to economic blackmail.
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New Finance Canada headquarters will be named in honour of Jim Flaherty.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jim-flaherty-to-be-honoured-with-naming-of-new-finance-canada-hq-1.2645571
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In a previous post I described how my wife and I decided to get our (backdated to 1973) CLNs. We applied in January of 2012 and the CLNs arrived in July 2012. We promptly made copies and gave one to our financial advisor at Scotia McLeod.
Last week we got a phone call from our financial advisor saying we now had to provide our old US social security number (haven’t got a clue what they were) and fill out a W8-BEN. Told her we weren’t filling out any US IRS forms ever again.
She then informed me that she has been instructed to call every person on her client list and ask each and every one of them five questions:
Are you a US citizen?
Were you born in the US?
Did you reside in the US for more than 183 days last year?
Two others that I missed because she was going so fast.
She said she was amazed to find so many of her clients who had ties to the US!
Anybody else getting this type of call?LikeLike
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Yikes Johnnb! I’m going to give this its own thread.
For some reason, investment accounts seem to be treated differently than bank accounts, but this could be the beginning of something.
What was the outcome? How did you answer? Did you give her the CLN?LikeLike
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If anyone is having trouble accessing the IsaacBrockSociety.ca site:
Petros advises:
The website is not accessible today because DNS servers are “propogating”. This was the disaster that Dwayne feared most, I think, and it happened due to no fault of his or ours.
Hopefully, by this evening things will be back.
I had to look up what that means:
https://support.powerdnn.com/kb/a604/dns-propagation-and-why-it-takes-so-long-explained.aspxLikeLike
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More info on the upcoming FATCA lawsuit in the US.
http://www.bilan.ch/argent-finances-plus-de-redaction/fatca-lappel-mondial-aux-sponsors
Weird that this comes out in a French article. I haven’t seen the info anywhere else yet. But the main point is the approximate cost of $250k to start legal action and in approximately 2 weeks, Solomon Yue will start fatcalegalaction.com to finance the campaign.
Stay tuned.
That gives also an idea on how much it will cost in Canada as well. Do we have a better idea of when the challenge can start here? What is the timeline? When will we know if the suggested amendment will be adopted?LikeLike
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@Noone: Those are good questions and ones other people probably also have.
One MP has done some work on the amendment and I’m trying to get an answer about what I can post on line.
My understanding is that those who are coordinating the fund raising for the next stage of the legal challenge hope to be able to move ahead soon.
I know everyone wants to move ahead as quickly as possible, but we ask that you bear with us as we work through some issues and planning.LikeLike
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Thanks so much for your work.
I keep hoping that the amendment will be accepted. I guess we have to wait until we know if this happens or not.
But I have no clue of the process, given my limited knowledge of the parliamentary process, and when the final version of the bill will finally become law.
Lastly, I hope people will not have to choose to which fund to give to (Canadian vs republican overseas) and that this will not dilute on either side the amount that is raised.
And hopefully, there will be big donors on each side which will help raise the sum faster.
One last question I have is that I read multiple times that if the IGA is struck down, then the bank will likely discriminate, since the charter does not apply to them.
But you said years ago that they can be sued for doing that. Could you clarify that point? On which ground could the banks be sued if they go along with FATCA or choose to close people’s accounts. They were not sued in any other country where they discriminate openly such as Switzerland, France, Germany, Belgium etc.
Thanks.LikeLike
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@noone; First, you are not a no one.You are a someone and we’re glad you and many others are in this fight with us!
I will try to explain is as I understand it.
Joe Arvay explained to Tiger, Somerfugl and I when we consulted his over two years ago that if the banks violate privacy, human rights or banking laws, we may have grounds for a lawsuit against the banks.
If the government changes those laws to allow the banks to comply with FATCA, we may have grounds for a legal challenge under the constitution, including the Charter, against the government.
The FATCA IGA Implementation Act essentially changes those laws by prevailing over all other Canadian laws except the Income Tax Act.
If the law passes as it is written, that means the banks will not be violating privacy, banking or human rights laws because the Implementation Act overrides all of those laws.
Interestingly, in her understated testimony, the Privacy Commissioner seemed to indicate privacy law would prevail over the Implementation Act. However, we may need to take legal action against the government to confirm that.
Because the government’s intent is to have the Implementation Act supercede all Canadian laws, we will not have grounds for a lawsuit against the banks.
Instead, our legal challenge, including the constitution and Charter will be against the government–not against the banks. The Charter applies to the government–not to the banks.
So, it’s all very complicated. I hope I have explained it accurately.
As you know, I am not a lawyer and this is not intended as legal advice in any way, but your question is a very valid one that I’m sure many people share.
I wish I had spent the time and energy I have spent on FATCA over the last three years doing a law degree. It would have been time much better spent and by now I would have welcomed an opportunity to article with someone like John Richardson or Joe Arvay on FATCA.
I should say that Joe cautioned me that playing lawyer can be just as dangerous as playing doctor, but not as much fun. I should probably take his warning to heart!LikeLike
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My correspondence resulting from yesterday’s Parliamentary session: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/comment-page-11/#comment-1995073
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FATCA: The Global Reach of the IRS
“Big brother is truly watching your money worldwide.”LikeLike
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Russia Duma passed a FATCA law. Under this law, a customer can refuse the transfer of information to the IRS.
Seems like a good deal? Wait. The bank can close the account if the customer does not agree to it.
As I’ve said before, that is like a rapist holding a knife at a woman’s throat and saying it was consensual.
There seems to be some ability for authorities to refuse to transfer information–whatever that means.
I wonder how this will affect Snowden. I sure wish we could reach him.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-banks-to-help-us-tax-service-after-new-fatca-law-passed/502324.htmlia folds to FATCA.
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China initials deal for FATCA with USA:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-initials-deal-with-china-to-curb-offshore-tax-evasion-1403815952LikeLike
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The lead editorial in today’s (July 6, 2014) New York Times is titled “The Real Internal Revenue Scandal”, which, according to them is that the Republican Congress has cut funding of the IRS to an extent that prevents it from adequately enforcing US tax laws:
The editorial includes the following statement and question:
The agency also has to collect and process more information about assets held in offshore accounts under a 2010 law, for which it needs more people and resources, not fewer. Guess who uses offshore accounts?
Clearly they imply that the answer to that question is “tax evaders”, although we who are living outside the US know that the correct answer is “primarily people who reside in ‘offshore’ countries.” It’s amazing to see such a display of ignorance from such a prominent US newspaper!
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Vancouver Sun columnist Douglas Todd would like to interview people for a column about the effects of US tax policy/FATCA on Canadians.
Mr. Todd made contact with PatCanadian, due to Pat having contacted the Vancouver Sun regarding their coverage of this issue. He is doing research for a column from the viewpoint of Canadian citizens who are affected by this and he asked if Pat could help him locate other Canadians, especially in BC, who would be willing to speak with him.
If you’d like to contact Mr. Todd, his e-mail address is dtodd@vancouversun.com
You can see some of his recent columns at this link http://blogs.vancouversun.com/author/douglastodd2/LikeLike
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Good work, PatCanadian. Thanks for stepping forward and being interviewed for Douglas Todd’s story.
You can comment to the article through Facebook at this link: http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Metro+Vancouver+woman+joins+movement+drop+citizenship/10056687/story.htmlLikeLike
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@ PatCanadian
Another thanks for coming forward. The more media coverage there is, the more people will become aware of the situation. And, more exposure to the Charter Challange can only help.LikeLike
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About Vancouver Sun article:
Thanks to everyone for their assistance with this, anonymous or otherwise.
Here is a link to Douglas Todd’s column in which I am featured:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Metro+Vancouver+woman+joins+movement+drop+citizenship/10056687/story.htmlLikeLike
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Here is a link to a financial post article, about individuals affected by FATCA, which recently came out. The featured new book looks like a possible great read for people, like me, exiting the US tax system and saying goodbye to the IRS:
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/07/29/coping-with-fatca-law-firms-book-offers-advice-for-americans-living-in-canada/
It is a about guide published by a law firm which states:
“The main sections deal with Dual Status Taxpayers, Income Tax Compliance, Living and Dying with U.S. Transfer Taxes, and Trust and Estate Planning for Americans in Canada. The beauty of reading the entire book is that it puts FATCA in perspective. The material is in plain English, avoids lawyer-speak in all 28 short chapters none of which exceed five pages but one: the seven-page chapter entitled Catch-Up Reporting for the Non-Compliant, which is likely what interests FATCA-affected individuals most.”
My interest would be the catch up reporting aspect so as to never hear from the IRS for the remainder of my natural, and now hopefully more simple, life.LikeLike
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u.s. chamber of commerce gets it. they say fatca does not target wealthy scofflaws, but average americans living abroad. unfortunately, they seem unaware many of us do not consider ourselves americans, but the u.s. is trying 2 claim us 2 seize our bank records.
https://www.uschamber.com/blog/exit-strategy-fatca-tax-law-keeps-pushing-americans-give-citizenship?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Wallpost&utm_campaign=Status
they do recognize fatca is sparking a revolt.
y is this so difficult 4 irs, us treasury and congress 2 understand? probably because they do not want 2 understand. they think we r all myths.LikeLike
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@Lynne, to understand means they would have to do something about it. When’s the last time politicians from any country admitted that they introduced laws that weren’t well thought out and had unintended effects? I don’t think the phrase ‘sorry, I was wrong’ is part of their vocabulary.
And, that’s what our own govt would have to admit to. They will fight that every step of the way.LikeLike
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Lest anyone think that Gerald Keddy was just an idiot when discussing Bill
C-31, here’s another instance of his wisdom:
http://www.hilltimes.com/2014/08/19/mps-meet-behind-closed-doors-to-discuss-chill-on-charities-from-cra-audits/39400
I feel sorry for Murray Rankin and anyone else who has to sit in the same room with Keddy.LikeLike
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Thank goodness Alliance for Defence of Canadian Sovereignty is a non-profit rather than a charitable organization in Canada!
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This was just posted by Tricia Moon on Brock. Maybe someone could post it here? Looks like rather alarming news. Thanks.
http://www.taxsupport.ca/question-about-fatca-answered-and-cra-backstabbing/
It would be great if someone with a legal background could comment on this. The article implies that the IRS could induce the big banks to collect penalties from account holders in Canada for remittance to the IRS. Banks like TD and RBC have branches in US and Canada. So much for our protections in Canada?
Thank God for the ADCS lawsuit.LikeLike
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It’s bullshit. Ignore it. Do us a favour and don’t repost it.
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I agree with Kal that it is B.S. and fear mongering. However, I disagree that it shold not be reposted.
By reposting it and discussing it, we may be able to prevent some people from falling into the clutches of vultures like this trying to terrorize people into getting trapped in the IRS dragnet.
Several weeks ago, I reported on an elderly woman who had fallen into such a trap from supposedly responsible organizations–Canada Trust and Price Waterhouse, so I think it’s important we share this information and warn people not to fall for it.
The High Court of Justice has already ruled that Canadian banks cannot collect for the IRS even if those banks conduct business in the U.S.
http://uniset.ca/other/cs6/68OR2d379.html
On the other hand, until February, I predicted FATCA could never apply to Canadian citizens and residents in Canada. I never thought I would see the day when an elected Canadian government would pass a law that would prevail over all other Canadian laws on the demands of a foreign government and would make discrimination against one group of Canadians based on place of birth legal and mandatory.LikeLike
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If you go over to their site, you can see instantly that they are pushing their services extremely hard – it’s in their best interest to scare the crap out of people so that they engage this firm. IMHO that website is the online equivalent of spam email that sets out to scare people so they aren’t thinking rationally enough to realize they shouldn’t click on those nasty embedded links.
Admin of the site styles himself as ‘Super Sam’. I did a quick bit of research and wasn’t impressed. Apparently he’s on some small business meeting circuit in Vancouver maybe someone from there has more info on him.
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Of course it’s B.S. On the other hand, look at how the laws have changed in Canada with regard to FATCA. We need to be on guard as things could continue to change. The IRS, big banks, and people from tax services will be out there pushing this fear mongering for their own interests and profits. We need to be aware of it.
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Republicans Overseas FATCA Legal Action website is now live. Looks like they used the ADCS site as their model.
https://fatcalegalaction.com/LikeLike
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I hadn’t followed this for a while but was really glad to discover this today on Vancity Credit Union website:
“Vancity only needs to collect FATCA information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents.” This would mean in addition to being a US person I believe. So if you are a Canadian resident and US person, it seems you are not reportable.
Apparently they have established “Local Client Base classification.” Please see the following:
https://www.vancity.com/PrivacyAndSecurity/YourPrivacy/FATCA/
I hope this is an ongoing trend. Has anyone else seen anything about this with other credit unions?LikeLike
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Here is another great column from Douglas Todd. Good to have improved coverage of FATCA/US tax issues from the Vancouver Sun. It brings out awareness about things like the fact that: “The U.S. is the only major country to tax based on citizenship, not residency.” Some non US persons may begin to get why it is not so easy to “just renounce”.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Douglas+Todd+Ameri+Canadians+point+fury+Uncle/10178232/story.htmlLikeLike
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#?OverseasVotersGuide? :
Send links 2 your candidates’ statements 2 US citizens abroad. http://bit.ly/1rqMyUO
Am Expats send links to overseas voter issues
“The Swing States are determined by Swing Voters. Lest your candidate forget–the 2004 election came down to counting the absentee ballots in one swing state. But your candidates have indeed forgotten and they are not addressing the issues of this minority—US citizens overseas. US citizens overseas are outraged at the attitude of their politicians. And the race has come this far and a tiny few candidates have addressed any of overseas voters’ issues.
US candidates are currently courting the Homeland vote. Many candidates are directing their talking points at US citizens overseas with derogatory labels. This is the place where candidates have a chance to turn that attitude around and address the overseas vote that is going to turn the elections in 2014 and 2016.
Candidates are especially invited to comment by sending links to their published statements regarding their support-for or antagonism-to Overseas Voters . Bloggers and media are especially invited to copy this concept and provide their own guides.
This post will help to show the critical issues that affect Overseas voters directly. All Representatives are up for re election each 2 yrs.”LikeLike
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I was having a discussion last week with a guy who thought FATCA was ok because it caught tax evaders (not a happy discussion.) As part of my side I mentioned that citizenship based taxation was a major problem and only used by the US and Eritrea. He came back with the statement that China also has CBT.
This is of minor importance in my mind compared to all the other issues but I would like to be accurate when I argue. Does anyone here have any information on whether or not China actually does have CBT? References?LikeLike
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According to Wikipedia, (google citizen based taxation) China does not tax foreign income of non resident citizens.
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Want a laugh? Ran across this when I got interested in John’s comment.
http://lawandborder.com/advantages-of-us-naturalization-versus-keeping-chinese-citizenship/
Under advantages of us citizenship,
“Both lawful permanent residents (see here) and U.S. citizens are subject to U.S. taxes on their worldwide income, even if they don’t live in the U.S. The U.S. is only one of a few countries to take such an interest in expats’ foreign-earned income.”
The corresponding area for taxes for China is blank…LikeLike
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No surprise. “FATCA is going to cost more than anticipated.”
Also no surprise. Along with the costs, FATCA keeps growing.“The whole problem of FATCA has just become bigger,” said Laurence Kiddle, managing director corporate market EMEA for the tax and accounting business of Thomson Reuters.
“CRS is a game-changer. It dramatically widens the reporting scope and this puts massive strain on budgets. A financial institution needs to be able to identify the tax residence of each of their customers – not just whether or not they meet the definition of ‘American Person’ – and have the ability to report this to the relevant authorities. This increase in the scope, depth and complexity of reporting is a very significant challenge.”Help stop FATCA. Donate to http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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CRS is the Common Reporting Standard, or GATCA, as several people here and on IBS have been foretelling.
According to Wikipedia,
“Forty-seven Countries have tentatively agreed to share information on residents assets and incomes automatically in conformation with the Standard. Until now, the parties to most treaties which are in place for sharing information have shared information upon request, which has not proved effective in preventing tax evasion. The new system is supposed to automatically and systematically transfer all the relevant information.
On May 6, 2014, forty-seven countries [1] agreed to implement it. Implementation will probably commence around 2017.[2]”LikeLike
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Does this mean that before 2017 we all have to have our money in a mattress or else Canada will share our account information with 50 other countries?
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Well, it seems to me that we better think about our ties very carefully – get an inheritance from that great-aunt in France, boom, France could have your personal account information.
This is a sad, sad time. The end of the concept known as privacy.LikeLike
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Sad and frightening best describe the new global FATCA known as CRS. “It has been developed by the OECD, working with G20 countries, and in close co-operation with the EU.” Here is a link to the new nightmare reality:
Click to access automatic-exchange-financial-account-information-common-reporting-standard.pdf
It doesn’t look like the US is participating in CRS, only FATCA at present. As if FATCA wasn’t enough. I guess if the US signed on for CRS, they would have to exchange data with other countries instead of just collect data for the IRS.
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http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/10/americans-renounce-citizenship-fatca/
73% of Americans residing abroad consider renouncing.
I wonder what all those expats who voted for Obama think of all that hopey changey bull crap now.LikeLike
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For anyone having difficulties with the site, I apologize. Our server was attacked and while it’s up there are still a few problems the hoster is working on.
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…and Brock seems to be down right now; hope not for long.
Thanks for all your work, Outraged CanadianLikeLike
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@OutragedCanadian
Thanks for all your work in getting the Maple Sandbox back up and running.LikeLike
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@PatCanadian – thank you. It’s just tooo bad that it was even required. I do not understand some of those people out there.
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Ran across this article by the Chairman of the S.F.Sharapov Russian Economic Society in the NovoRussia News Agency site,
He says that, “FATCA can be characterized as a new-generation weapon, aimed at the construction of Pax Americana.”
He concludes with,
“The struggle for the optimization of the fiscal performance was just a pretext for the legalization of this global operation range weapon. Abroad the FATCA was perceived as an attempt of the USA to put the states and banks all over the world under its direct fiscal control. Notably, foreign countries did not display proper opposition. Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy, Switzerland, Spain have meekly demonstrated their readiness to participate in the implementation of the FATCA. They signed the appropriate bilateral agreements with the USA, having practically become the fiscal agents of the American tax service. Several more European countries are going to sign such agreements”
Yep. Totally.LikeLike
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Dear President of America: “My name is Janne. I am nine years old…Y do you believe my grandfather and I are washing your money? Why don’t you believe my grandfather and I are good people?”
Meet an Accidental American with a big tax bill in his OMG moment.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/15/pf/accidental-american-expat-tax/
Short on details, but Armstrong Economics is reporting a new class action lawsuit against FATCA is being formed.
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/12/16/class-action-lawsuit-forming-against-fatca/LikeLike
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Note regarding the class action lawsuit mentioned in my previous post: There is a feeling this may not be legitimate.
In addition, according to Wikipedia, the author has a criminal record for conspiracy to commit fraud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_A._Armstrong
This is a case of proceed with caution.LikeLike
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Not American? You still might have to file US taxes tells of the strain IRS is placing on marriages of Americans to non-US spouses.
That is a story that is all to familiar to many. I remember OMGhe’sstillanamerican once said IRS wants to claim anyone who has ever French kissed an American to be a U.S. person.
I miss OMG. I hope she’s OK.LikeLike
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UPDATE for anyone wondering about IsaacBrockSociety.ca site:
It is, again, up and running. Hope we continue to be up and running here and there as we are approaching a very important deadline for donations for ADCS-ADSC.ca.LikeLike
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Here are two very different presentations on FATCA.
One is Keith Redmond in France interviewed on Fox News in the U.S. about FATCA and why some Americans are renouncing U.S. citizenship. Serious, informative, direct.
Keith mention“s the Canadian lawsuit at the end of the interview. He also talks about the groundswell of anger.
The second is satire about the very real implications for a young Swedish Princess and the Second FATCA Royal to be born in Stockholm this summer. Also informative, but fun, funny and funky.LikeLike
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Here is something of interest from today’s Wall Street Journal. Not being a financial wizard, I never understood the concept of PFIC’s. This seems to explain it in plain English:
http://blogs.wsj.com/expat/2015/03/09/why-u-s-expats-should-never-own-foreign-mutual-funds-ask-an-expert/tab/print/
Note the exceedingly high rate of taxation on PFIC investment income by US IRS: 39.6% and up. “For US tax purposes, non-US mutual funds qualify as Passive Foreign Investment Companies (PFIC’s).”
This WSJ article also states: “Starting in 2014, all foreign financial institutions are now required to report to the IRS on accounts owned by Americans. Individual tax returns have to match the data supplied by foreign financial institutions, or the IRS will begin asking questions and launching audits.”
Oh boy, I am happy to be a non-US person for tax purposes now. Looks like Canadians with US taint need to live in fear of investing in their own country’s Canadian mutual funds. This is another great reason to support our anti FATCA anti IGA lawsuit.LikeLike
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I’s been a long time since I’ve posted in What’s New. But, here’s what’s new today.
A U.S. Court of Appeal has ruled NSA’s massive metadata collection is illegal. Yet they opted not to end the practice. What?!?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/07/nsa-phone-records-program-illegal-court
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/nsa-s-bulk-collection-of-phone-records-illegal-appeals-court-rules-1.3064949
I hope this will help the Bopp case if it ever gets launched.LikeLike
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Oh yes, more news from south of the border. It will be interesting if this goes to US Supreme Court:
“(Reuters) – A U.S. spying program that systematically collects millions of Americans’ phone records is illegal, a federal appeals court ruled on Thursday, putting pressure on Congress to quickly decide whether to replace or end the controversial anti-terrorism surveillance.”
Never the less, the court did not stop the NSA spy program. We will have to wait until “Congress speaks” again. It seems we need to be more wary of those trying to “protect us” by collecting all this mega data than of any so called terrorists. Any parallels here to FATCA and IRS extraterritorial data collection?
Here’s more reading on this Orwellian subject:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/07/us-usa-security-nsa-idUSKBN0NS1IN20150507LikeLike
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Maple Sandbox Historical Archive – 2012 to 2016
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Maple Sandbox Historical Archive - 2012 to 2016 
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