Maple Sandbox Historical Archive – 2012 to 2016

Are Other Canadian Credit Unions Being As Responsible About FATCA as Vancity?

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Does anyone know of any other credit unions that are being as responsible and upfront about FATCA as Vancity?
In Understanding FATCA on their website, Vancity says:

While Vancity must comply with the law, we are committed to protecting our members’ right to privacy. By registering as a Local Client Base financial institution, we believe we have significantly reduced the impact of FATCA on the majority of our members. As a result of our Local Client Base classification, Vancity only needs to collect FATCA information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents.

It appears to me most Canadian credit unions have the ability to register as a Local Client Base financial institution so they only report on non-Canadian residents. I would love to know if others are doing this.
Contrast Vancity with Meridian Credit Union::

3. What is a “U.S. person”?
If you want help in determining if you are a U.S. person for the purposes of FATCA, we suggest that you speak with a professional tax advisor. In general, attributes that generally cause an individual or business to be classified as a U.S. person include:
?U.S. citizenship; (anyone born in the U.S. and who has not renounced their U.S. Citizenship)
being a lawful resident of the U.S. (permanent resident); and/or
U.S. corporation, estate, or trust.

And:

6. What type of information will be reported to the U.S. via the CRA?
The following information will be reported:
Identifying information about the account holder (name and address)
Account number
Account balance or value at the end of the year
Certain amounts paid or credited to the account
TIN (tax identification number)

Like Meridian, it seems Alterna has made no effort to take the local client base option, but plans to comply:

Under the IGA, financial institutions in Canada will report relevant information on accounts of U.S. persons to the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) rather than directly to the IRS. The CRA will then exchange the information with the IRS through the provisions in the existing Canada-U.S. Tax Convention.

Alterna uses the standard definitions of U.S. persons.
We need to find out clearly which credit unions are taking the Vancity local client base approach and which are taking the full compliance model of Meridian. Is there anyone who is willing to take this on as a project?

101 responses to “Are Other Canadian Credit Unions Being As Responsible About FATCA as Vancity?”

  1. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    Thanks to Vancity for being upfront about FATCA!
    I contacted Vancity about this as a customer through their online inquiry system in March, 2014. Their Chief Privacy Officer replied that Vancity was “reviewing its processes to determine whether it can qualify under the reduced FATCA reporting obligations”. I believe I posted the correspondence on Maple Sandbox under a comment. Just recently, I became aware of Vancity’s new statement about their status as Local Client Based institution.
    As a precaution, I would suggest that anyone with accounts at another credit union, or thinking of opening accounts with a credit union, consider making this type of inquiry.
    You are right Lynne. We should know if other credit unions are registered as Local Client Base FI’s. Many of them should be able to do this.

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  2. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @PatCanadian Thanks for finding that info. I wish I lived in B.C.!
    Here is the answer I received from my credit union where I was a member for over 14 years:

    Hello, Ms. Swanson … I am responding on behalf of Stephen Bolton, Libro Head Coach & CEO
    Libro is a full service financial institution and our owners come from a wide variety of backgrounds and many operate a wide variety of business and social enterprises. A great many have dealings with companies and counterparts around the world and significant relationships with US firms, customers, suppliers, etc. Being open to everyone in the communities that comprise southwestern Ontario, we have many owners who are local Canadian residents but also, as defined by US FATCA legislation, “US persons” by way of citizenship or otherwise.
    Thus, Libro is not structured to declare itself unilaterally as a “Non-Reporting” or “Deemed Compliant” financial institution. However, along with our provincial and national level credit union system organizations (Central 1 Credit Union and Credit Union Central of Canada), we are working our way through the recently announced Inter Government Agreement between Canada and the US regarding FATCA and developing the procedures and protocols that will be required for reporting through the Canada Revenue Agency in compliance with what will now be domestic Canadian legislation and regulation. That will include the protections for consumers and individuals as provided by the federal Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA).
    Much has been said about FATCA’s extra-territorial reach beyond the US and implications for the sovereignty of Canada and other countries. Many of us at Libro certainly have our own personal opinions on that issue but, as an organization, we must do what is necessary to continue to provide quality financial service to our owners in a manner consistent and compliant with the laws of Canada and Ontario.
    Ms. Swanson, I am not sure whether your interest in FATCA is a general concern or if FATCA compliance will directly impact you or someone close to you. I would be happy to talk with you further on this and, if appropriate and at your request, refer you to other Libro staff or other professionals (example: accountants with specific expertise in US taxation) for advice on your particular circumstances.
    Let me know if I have answered your question to your satisfaction and please do contact me if you wish to discuss this further.
    Harry
    Harry Joosten, Governance Coach & Corporate Secretary
    In life, do not wait for storms to pass … but rather learn to dance in the rain!

    This was my reply:

    You have answered my question. I will be transferring my funds out of Libro soon.
    This is a huge disappointment to me. I feel betrayed by the government of the country where I have been a patriotic citizen for 41 years. Now I feel betrayed by the credit unin where I have been a loyal “owner” for 14 years.

    I then checked with your Neighbourhood Credit Union. Here is their response:

    Good morning,
    We appreciate the opportunity to earn your business and are more than pleased to provide you with information with respect to your FATCA inquiry. Without implying that you are either an American citizen or born in the United States, I would like to confirm the status of FATCA in Canada which was the original question you asked. Your personal tax residency situation would not alter our response.
    The Canada Revenue Agency and the US Internal Revenue Service have had a tax treaty in place for an extended period of time. With the introduction of FATCA in the United States, governments around the world have revisited their tax treaties with the United States. Very recently, the Canada Revenue Agency and the US Internal Revenue Service have agreed upon an inter-governmental Agreement. With the nature of your questions, you can refer to the full Canada Revenue Agency Agreement here: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/menu-eng.html
    When Your Neighbourhood Credit Union receives a new Membership Application we require the following information:
    · An original valid, unexpired government issued photo identification in one of the following forms:
    o 1. Canadian Driver’s License
    o 2. Ontario Photo Card
    o 3. Canadian Passport
    o 4. Canadian Record of Landing
    o 5. Canadian Permanent Resident Card
    o 6. Canadian Certification of Indian Status
    o 7. Canadian Birth Certificate
    o 8. Foreign Passport
    · Your physical address
    · Your mailing address (if different)
    · A contact telephone number
    · Your Social Insurance Number
    · Politically Exposed Foreign Person confirmation (whether you are a Political person with a foreign government, or directly related to one)
    · Confirmation that you are/are not operating the account(s) at the instruction of any third party
    · The purchase of a $10 share, which grants Membership in the Credit Union and a vote as a Credit Union Member.

    So, it seems your Neighbourhood is also not taking the local client base route. At the same time, they made it clear they do not care where I was born. So, I transferred my Libro assets to Your Neighbourhood.
    Unlike Vancity, Meridian and Alterna, neither Libro nor Your Neighbourhood website provides any information on FATCA.

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  3. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    I contacted 9 credit unions that, according to their websites or direct inquiries, only accept Canadian residents as clients and therefore should be eligible to be non-reporting.
    Two were still investigating their FATCA situation when I last asked: Accelerate and Outlook.
    Four said they will be reporting accounts under FATCA: Canadian Direct Financial, Peoples Trust, Hubert, Bridgewater.
    Three are non-reporting: Acheiva, Implicity, Maxa.
    I asked the ones that are reporting what is it about their businesses that precludes them from being non-porting but I didn’t get any replies.
    The only one that has FATCA information on their website is Peoples Trust. They mostly have just copied the CRA FAQ on FATCA and state: “all Peoples Trust clients will be required to certify if they are either a U.S. citizen or resident.”

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  4. Duke of Devon Avatar
    Duke of Devon

    Looks like VanCity is the very best of the bunch.

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  5. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Lynne
    By contacting the credit unions at least you know more about where they stand with FATCA. It sounds like Libro has US interests, which makes it better to avoid like the big banks.
    One other option is the small credit unions with total assets of less than $175 million. These are hard to find as well. Besides Vancity, I joined one of these small credit unions in my area (Greater Vancouver Community Credit Union.) They do not have as many services as the large credit unions, but being FATCA free is a real advantage. It is a pleasure to do business with them.
    @What Am I
    Thanks for looking into the nine credit unions. The more we know the better. I would think that it would be less trouble for credit unions to operate as Local Client Based, if they qualify. Raising their awareness may push them in that direction.
    Unfortunately, we need a safe place to keep our money, other than under the mattress, until we see how the lawsuit goes. The banks are no longer safe for suspect US persons under FATCA.

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  6. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    To be a member at Vancity, you must be a BC resident. Yet, their FATCA info page says “As a result of our Local Client Base classification, Vancity only needs to collect FATCA information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents.” My guess this is to accommodate clients who originally lived in BC but left Canada? In these cases, the IGA says the FI must either report the account or close the account. Strange that they are willing to bear the cost of FATCA reporting for those few clients. It would be much cheaper to close such accounts and not have to report at all!
    I’m not sure how the 98% rule works, but it may be that if more than 2% of their clients leave the country, they could lose their Local Client Base standing?

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  7. Hazy Avatar
    Hazy

    Nova Scotia’s largest credit union, East Coast Credit Union, has determined that it is a local FI, and therefore subject only to “limited reporting” (same as Vancity). No reporting on Canadian residents.
    There’s no geographical restriction on membership. Nothing will likely be posted on their website before next year.
    @ WhatAmI
    The 98% rule is based on the value of accounts.

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  8. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    Thanks Hazy.
    Here’s to East Coast Credit Union with no geographic restriction (Nova Scotia) and Vancity Credit Union (BC). May their businesses grow and flourish. This likely to be due to influx of US person(?) Canadians to their local client based FI’s.
    Any more local FI’s out there?

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  9. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @WhatAmI Thanks for posting that. What provinces are those credit unions in?
    @Hazy: Thanks for that information from Nova Scotia.
    @PatCanadian: Thanks for sharing information about one more credit union.
    The ones I mentioned–Libro, Your Neighbourhood, Alterna and Medidian are all in Ontario. I think they all limit their membership to Ontario residents, so I don’t know why they would not qualify for local client base status.
    @WhatAmI: People’s Trust is planning to ask all clients if they are U.S. citizens? Yikes! That goes way beyond what they are required to do under either FATCA regs or the IGA. Do you know if they plan to ask if clients were born in the United States?
    Do others have information about what other credit unions are doing? We really need to pull this information together. I really hope someone or several someones will be willing to take this on as a project. Any volunteers?
    I am still in a rehab hospital, but I sent an e-mail to Credit Union Central asking what credit unions other than Vancity are taking the local client base option.

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  10. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Lynne
    If you are still in rehab, please take it easy. I had a great fall and nasty injury a couple of years ago. It definitely slowed me down. Your correspondence looks great and no one would suspect that you are still in rehab.
    I can take on further investigation of credit unions in BC if that is what you mean. There are 45 credit unions in BC. They may not all be restricted to BC so will look into that also. I can look at their websites and then call or contact them online for further information on the FATCA issue. I can also contact Credit Union Central for general information on Canadian credit unions concerning FATCA and the IGA.
    This may take me a while as I am semi-retired and no longer in the fast lane. Let me know what you need. Hopefully there will be volunteers from the other provinces.

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  11. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    @Lynne,
    The 3 FATCA-free CUs that I found, Acheiva, Implicity and Maxa, are all online CUs based in Manitoba and insured by the Manitoba credit union deposit insurance which is unlimited. They are available Canada-wide, including Quebec. They all have Ding-Free AccuLink ATM cards and you can write cheques on the savings accounts. These are all high-interest savings accounts, paying 1.8% or 1.9% at the moment. Maxa does not have linked accounts but the other two do (so once set up, you can easily transfer money to and from other banks from their online banking web site).
    I have no further details about any of them.
    Another MB credit union, Hubert, while being a FATCA reporting FI has indicated that they are honouring the $50K threshold. It is online only, no cheques and no ATM, but their eTransfers are the easiest to set up and use. Hubert is not available to residents of Quebec. Their FATCA reporting schedule is interesting:

    Our reporting requirements are:
    •May 1, 2015: First reporting – for year-end 2014 balances (only for accounts > $1 Million at June 30, 2014 and new accounts opened July to December 2014)
    •May 1, 2016: Second reporting – for year-end 2015 balances (all accounts > $50 thousand USD at June 30, 2015; for entity accounts, such as businesses, corporations and trusts this threshold is $250,000 USD)

    I haven’t compared this to the IGA or Guidance, but I wonder if they really only consider the account balance on June 30 and not the highest balance throughout the year? One could work around that ;-). Seems like a bit of a loophole. Of course, if one hasn’t already opened a Hubert account it’s too late because surely they ask the required questions now. They didn’t prior to July 1.

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  12. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    Even when I log in to Maple Sandbox, I don’t see any way to subscribe to individual threads for notification of new replies. Is there some trick I can’t find?

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  13. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @WhatAmI: There used to be a way to be advised of follow up comments, but I do not see it now. I hope Outraged may be able to look into that.
    @PatCanadian: Thanks for agreeing to look into the B.C. credit unions.
    That is a large number. Is anyone willing to help?Is anyone willing to do other provinces? We really need this information.
    Here is the very non-helpful response from Credit Union Central:

    Dear Ms. Swanson,
    Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately, I don’t have the information you are looking for. We do not monitor registrations by credit unions under FATCA.
    Regards

    @PatCanadian Thanks for your concern about my recovery. Yes, I am still in rehab. My fractured shoulder has actually recovered well, but I am still dealing with significant complications to my M.S. My major focus is on very intense therapy daily, which leaves me with limited time, energy or stamina for other things. I am getting stronger every day, but I still have a way to go,

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  14. OutragedCanadian Avatar
    OutragedCanadian

    I’ll work on adding back in the ability to subscribe.. but it will be a few days, sorry….

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  15. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    Further to my previous posts about credit unions, Outlook Financial, another Canada-wide Manitoba-based CU available only to Canadian residents, will be reporting accounts under FATCA.

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  16. schubert Avatar
    schubert

    I am delighted and, as a roughly-35-years member, proud to report that Alterna Savings and Credit Union. formerly CS Co-op and formerly mainly in Ottawa but now I believe with branches elsewhere in Ontario, IS IN FACT A LOCAL CLIENT BASE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION UNDER FATCA even though it has assets of more than $2 billion.
    I received today the following reply to my query (from two days ago) to Alterna, which I quote in full as it is (at my request) classified public information by them in their reply. This is a full copy-paste minus only my personal identifiers.
    “Thank you for contacting Alterna.
     
    “In response to your email, Alterna Savings is a full-service, member-focused and community-based financial co-operative with over $2.4 billion in assets and we must comply with all applicable laws and regulations under FATCA since July 2014. In order to  minimize the impact to our members, Alterna registered as a Local Client Base Financial Institutions, and we are only required to collect information and report on member accounts held by non-Canadian residents that are considered a U.S. person.”
    (BTW I appreciate that a phrase in that last sentence, “non-Canadian residents,” could be interpreted as persons resident in Canada but not Canadian citizens, OR persons not resident in Canada that are considered US persons. The correct interpretation is the latter, according to the CRA website’s FAQ mention of Local Client Base institutions, which is much clearer. CRA says a Local Client Base institution “will not be obliged to apply due diligence or report on accounts held by individuals who are Canadian residents.” I.e., Canadian citizen or not, doesn’t matter, they don’t get reported.)
    For whatever reason or oversight, Alterna doesn’t actually mention their Local Client Base status on their FATCA webpage. I’ve written a reply strongly urging them to correct that oversight. Last I checked, their webpage says they must comply with all applicable laws and regs, but they stop short at mentioning the Local Client Base etc after that in the above quote. Ridiculous; with that extra sentence they likely will attract significant business away from local chartered banks, not mention putting at ease the minds of so-called US persons resident in Canada who already have accounts with them. I mentioned these points too.
    FYI, I wrote to them “on behalf of several US-origin friends” mentioning in parenthesis that I am a Canadian citizen and NOT a US citizen nor US resident for US tax purposes (I’ve had a CLN since 1976, actually). So I figured there’s absolutely no risk to me of asking the question about Local Client Base status.
    Since I know some folks are nervous about even writing queries like this as possibly “outing” themselves, I would urge all readers of this thread who already have a CLN, are thus not even slightly at risk, and who also are members of any credit union, to do as I’ve done and ask your credit union, on behalf of US-origin friends and fellow members, whether they’ve registered as Local Client Base and, if not, exactly why not. And report back on this thread. As a member and voter of the credit union it’s your absolute right to demand to know this, and to demand to know why the hell they haven’t registered as such if they haven’t. It’s your organization, its board owes you a reply.
    ASK SPECIFICALLY whether your credit union has registered for Local Client Base status and, if not, why not. If Alterna’s staff were dense enough not to realize the importance of mentioning this on their website, maybe other credit unions don’t get that point (and might even neglect to mention this in an email reply). Don’t just ask if they’re complying with FATCA; even Alterna has said that (see above). Go the extra step and ask specifically about Local Client Base registration. Others haven’t until now, and as a result there has been some mis-information on this and other threads that Alterna might be reporting accounts of Canadian-resident holders. THEY WILL NOT BE DOING THAT.
    BTW maybe there are some good reasons why some credit unions can’t register, but I know for a fact that Alterna has for some years now provided US-dollar accounts in our local branches and also their ATM cards link with Cirrus and Interac (as well as The Exchange, Accel, and Coop Network) ATM networks. Cirrus and Interac are definitely world-wide, I’ve used my ATM card from Alterna to get local cash from ATMs in the US, Germany, Greece and Switzerland with no problems. Neither of these services seem to be any impediment to Alterna’s Local Client Base status.
    Also BTW, a number of months ago I inquired whether someone not a resident of Canada could open an account with Alterna (claiming I was asking on behalf of a visiting friend from the US) and was politely told that Alterna can’t legally open accounts with anyone who doesn’t reside in Ontario. So I don’t know who they in fact would ever have to report to CRA and IRS, unless maybe Ontario-resident members who later move to the US but keep an account here for visits might be allowed to keep the account open. Or maybe snowbirds who screw up and stay in the US longer than 180 days or whenever it is when suddenly you’re US-resident-pumpkin for tax purposes under IRS regs.
    Anyway, great news for anyone living near an Alterna branch in Ontario! And BTW I’ve been a very happy member and client of Alterna since the late 1970s. I can recommend them without qualification, in terms of service and convenience. Maybe not quite in the completeness of their current FATCA webpage, though, but I hope they’ll fix that …

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  17. schubert Avatar
    schubert

    According to their Branch locator on their website, Alterna Savings and Credit Union have branches not only in Ottawa but also in Toronto, GTA, Bolton, Brampton, Kingston, North Bay, Pembroke and Streetsville, all in Ontario of course.
    They also fairly recently bought what used to be (still maybe is called) the Womens’ Credit Union in Ottawa, and for all I know may have bought or are thinking of buying out other small credit unions in Ontario.
    For more info see http://www.alterna.ca

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  18. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    That’s great news Schubert. Why in the world don’t they say that on their website?!?
    My interpretation of what they published is that they intend to comply for Canadian citizens and residents in Canada. Did others have that same interpretation?

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  19. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    My interpretation is that the Alterna FATCA page was published long before they realized they could be exempt from reporting with their Local Client Base. They need to update it!

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  20. schubert Avatar
    schubert

    @WhatAmi
    I emailed them on that point in reply to their email, so at least the guy who emailed me has the message. I asked him to pass it along either to the webmaster or whoever is responsible for the FATCA page content.
    I initially shared Lynne’s impression of what their website currently says (which is almost identical to what they say in the email I quote below, at least down to the part about July 2014. It’s the next “little” bit they don’t have on their website.)
    I won’t speculate about why they don’t say this on their website, other than it’s an oversight or as WhatAmi says that page maybe was written a while ago. Though I do recall getting correspondence some months before the IGA was announced telling me they wouldn’t have to report accounts under FATCA and (if I recall correctly) they had a legal opinion to that effect. The Local Client Base exception has been in FATCA since before the IGA was announced, so I think they’ve pretty-much known this for a while. But maybe someone forgot to connect the dots and edit the web page contents once the enabling legislation was passed and they’d registered as Local Client Base. It’s a relatively large organization, and things fall through cracks in any big organization. Even in the private sector.

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  21. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @Schubert: That’s a huge crack!

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  22. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    I’m just going by the future tense of some key statements:
    “The requirements of the IGA will be reflected in changes to the Income Tax Act (Canada) ”
    “The FATCA legislation comes into force on July 1, 2014.”

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  23. Schubert Avatar
    Schubert

    @WhatAmI I see your point.
    For everyone visiting this site, please see the cross-post at Brock herehttp://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/09/24/if-this-is-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-3133693
    and specifically my lengthy reply suggesting that really, there’s no reason any of you can’t do your own emailing to whatever local credit union interests you to get clarification. I don’t see that puts anyone at any risk, and I don’t see why you’d need to wait for someone else to do it for you. But your choice. I won’t repeat a longer comment I drafted for this thread now, because the bloody anti-spam plugin zapped my last attempt and I’ve had it today struggling that that thing.

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  24. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Lynne
    Credit Unions in BC and FATCA:
    Here are six of the larger and more well-known credit unions to start.
    Among the “required to fully report” are Coast Capital, Blue Shore Financial, and First West (First West includes Envision, Valley First and Enderby).
    Those considered “Local Client Based FI’s with reduced reporting requirements” are Prospera, Westminster Savings and of course Vancity. These FI’s only report on accounts held by non-Canadian residents.
    I will continue contacting the credit unions in BC and keep you posted. It is not that easy to get this information as the customer service people don’t seem to know too much about FATCA. Several times, I was referred to a manager. Even the managers had to look this up and get back to me.
    I will summarize BC credit union FATCA status, when completed, and forward to Maple Sandbox.
    Please note that I am not a legal or financial professional so everyone should check out their own credit unions to be safe.

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    1. Maryanne Avatar
      Maryanne

      @PatCanadian. Wtf.. Coast capital is fully reporting even tho is BC resident based only? Sad sad day

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  25. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Schubert
    Thanks for the tip:
    “ASK SPECIFICALLY whether your credit union has registered for Local Client Base status and, if not, why not.”
    It has helped me in dealing with the BC credit union inquiries that I am doing. So far, I have not used the “if not, why not” part yet. Just getting answers to their FATCA status has been enough.

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  26. Schubert Avatar
    Schubert

    Hi PatCanadian.
    Sad to report that earlier today over at Brock, someone reported contacting Squamish Savings “a division of Vancity” and getting a very uninformative and chilling reply to a very specific question about whether Squamish Savings has LCB registration. See this thread, comment by “mettle man” and my replies and his replies.

    If this is accurate…


    Holy Crap if one arm of even Vancity can’t get what Vancity’s main office gets, this whole FATCA reporting thing is going to turn into an administrative nightmare for account holders, FIs, CRA and even the IRS (not that I give a s*** about the latter two’s problems in this regard). Never mind trying to make heads or tails out of whatever data get dumped on their heads. Everyone needs to watch what goes down in their own cases like hawks, and screech if (when) it looks like it’s going down wrong. Maybe with any luck this whole international rube-goldberg mess will collapse of its own weight. Which in itself doesn’t bother me, it’s the “collateral damage” it’s doing and going to do even worse probably, that bothers me.

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  27. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    Yes Schubert … this process is a real eye opener. We have to watch our backs every step of the way. So Squamish Savings, a division of Vancity, doesn’t know it has LCB registration. Mettle man needs to contact the manager and then contact the manager’s boss and so on. I have words for the US FATCA but they are not allowed on Maple Sandbox! It is a sad situation but I think in the end things like FATCA will come back around and bite the US.

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  28. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @Schubert: A whole lot is already going down wrong–including why aren’t all credit unions declaring themselves local client base. More importantly, why isn’t Credit Union Central educating them and urging them to do that.
    Vancity is Canada’s largest credit union. If they qualify for LCB, why don’t all the rest?!?
    @PatCanadian: Thamks for gathering all that information.
    I am really hoping people in other provinces will pitch in and help us pull together the information. Are there any volunteers?

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  29. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    I’m repeating this post that I made at IBS:
    Personally, I don’t trust FI staff to understand FATCA well enough to simply ask them if they are a “Local Client Base” FI and get the right answer. In my queries, I made it very clear I was asking about their reporting status exemption:
    “It appears from your website that your institution has a local client base, and should therefore be eligible for the status of a “non-reporting Canadian Financial Institution that will be treated as a Deemed-Compliant Foreign Financial Institution” under FATCA.
    I would like to know if you will be exempt from FATCA reporting based on the above or any other exemption provided for in the Canadian IGA with US FATCA implementation.”
    Mettleman got two different answers from the same office, and neither actually says they are exempt from FATCA reporting.

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  30. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    I agree with Schubert’s suggestion to ask “If not, why not”, but I only got one answer from several that I asked, which was “because our parent company must report”. That was back in April, and several months later they are now non-reporting after all.

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  31. Schubert Avatar
    Schubert

    As reported by mettle man over at IBS, and as I just replied over there:
    After pushing back, mettle man got a reply back admitting (after the local guy called head office) that yes, as a division of Vancity, Squamish Savings is indeed a Local Client Base Financial Institution.
    As I noted over at Brock, and concurring with one of WhatAmI’s points, we can’t assume that all local branch staff or even managers really comprehend what is going on and what they are and aren’t supposed to do. My concern is that if the reporting to CRA is being done at the local level rather than at head office level (where it’s much more likely someone with the appropriate pay grade, training, knowledge and accountability is going to be making and administering the reporting and one hopes the contact-the-account-holder-first-to-verify-indicia-or-get-self-certification step), there won’t be any consistency at all. If this reporting crap is decentralized and deregulated to the local level, it will be a shambles.
    Everyone needs to be vigilant and militant about this. (I made these points about the need for central control and oversight on this reporting, both with the opposition and with the Finance Minister, months before the IGA was announced, quite vigorously, in emails that weren’t generally even acknowledged and certainly didn’t seem to have made a dent in what the Tories forced through Bill C-31. The NDP got the message, but it went over the Liberals’ heads I think, and we all know the Harperites don’t listen to anyone or anything except their own chicken entrails.)

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  32. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Maryanne
    It is true their application indicates that Coast Capital only accepts BC residents. Yet I was told emphatically that they were required to do FATCA reporting and were currently reporting on new accounts. It seems some FI’s are quite fearful of the IRS and perhaps do not look into all of their options.

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  33. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @Lynne
    BC Credit Unions continued:
    The following say that they are Local Client Base credit unions with reduced FATCA reporting requirements: G&F Financial Group, Coastal Community Credit Union.
    Community Savings CU, Island Savings and Aldergrove Financial Group say they are full FATCA reporting and will ask if you are a US person.
    It was hard to determine Bulkley Valley CU FATCA reporting status. Their representative claimed LCB status but said they ask if you are a US person and forward information to CRA for determination. Doesn’t sound good.
    I will continue and finish up with BC credit unions. The ones that are left are small or very specialized. Some are in remote areas. I may just do a sample as this may take too much time otherwise.
    Its best if everyone double checks their own credit union. It seems the credit union employees are still trying to figure out FATCA.
    I hope people volunteer to do other provinces.

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  34. Lake Superior Guy Avatar
    Lake Superior Guy

    Thanks for this huge effort PatCanadian! I live in Ontario but know good work when I see it. How clueless these credit unions are! On the one hand their members are trembling in fear over FATCA (which they could dispel with a clear note on their website). On the other hand they could be a godsend to thousands of people like us who value the lost blessing called “privacy”

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  35. Maryanne Avatar
    Maryanne

    Thinking out loud here. Deemed complaint credit unions will be a good thing for pre- existing clients, but won’t new client still have to self certify and fill out applications asking citizenship and place of birth? Anyone know what Van City is asking on new applications?

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  36. OutragedCanadian Avatar
    OutragedCanadian

    @Maryanne, I just checked Vancity’s website, and a person can fill out an application online. It does not ask for citizenship or place of birth.
    At least not yet..

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  37. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    Hi everyone,
    This took me a while but here is a summary for BC credit unions. I hope we can get information for the rest of Canada at some point:
    Summary of Credit Unions in BC and FATCA Status:
    Full FATCA reporting:
    Aldergrove Financial Group
    Blue Shore Financial
    Bulkley Valley CU
    Coast Capital
    Community Savings CU
    First CU
    First West CU (includes Envision, Valley First and Enderby)
    Integris CU
    Interior Savings CU
    Island Savings
    Vantage One
    Local Client based with reduced reporting requirements:
    Coastal Community CU
    G&F Financial
    Kootenay Savings CU
    Prospera
    Westminster Savings
    Vancity
    Fully exempt (total assets less than $175 million US):
    Columbia Valley CU
    Greater Vancouver Community CU
    Due to time constraints, I did not look into some small credit unions with 4 branches or less and several very specialized credits unions, for example those for non-profits and police.
    Please keep in mind that I am not a legal professional. I am just an ordinary Canadian calling the FI’s and asking the FATCA questions. The CU employees and managers seem to be in the” learning about FATCA” phase. Always double check with your own financial institution. As a precaution, it may be wise to withhold your last name and decline to verify your member status.

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  38. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    @PatCanadian: fabulous work. Thank you so much for seeking out that information from B.C.
    We now have thorough information from B.C., some information from Manitoba, limited information from Ontario and info on one credit union in Nova Scotia.
    Are there other volunteers out there willing to gather information from the remaining provinces and complete the information for Manitoba, Ontario and Nova Scotia?
    @Schubert: Have you learned anything further from Alterna about whether they will update their website?
    Please everyone, we need everyone to help. A few of us can’t do it ourselves.
    We will also need a volunteer to collate all of this information from across Canada after it is gathered.
    Others in the past have said “Let me know how I can help.” This is one of the many ways you can help. Will you do it?

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  39. OutragedCanadian Avatar
    OutragedCanadian

    I feel slightly guilty, but there’s no way I can take it on. I hope someone out there has the time and mental energy to take it on, it’s valuable knowledge.

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  40. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    @OutragedCanadian and Lynne Swanson
    I’m sure that you both have already done more than your share toward this cause which we all should be thankful for. Hopefully others will come forward. It can be done anonymously. I did BC credit unions without Identifying myself except with Vancity. Vancity has been quite progressive and very up front about FATCA. It’s an educational opportunity to find out how our FI’s are operating.

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  41. OutragedCanadian Avatar
    OutragedCanadian

    Thanks for understanding PatCanadian. I keep hoping I’ll find more time but right now I’m a little stretched. I do hope someone can find the time to do the research.

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  42. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    Tax Samurai is reporting on information here and at Brock on Canadian credit unions.
    Included is the list Pat Canadian compiled.
    http://www.taxsamurai.com/2014/10/local-client-base-under-fatca-credit-unions-in-canada-an-update/
    Again, I`m asking (begging!), if people out there will do the same for other provinces!

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    1. PatCanadian Avatar
      PatCanadian

      @Lynne
      Very interesting… at least Tax Samurai is spreading the word.
      http://www.taxsamurai.com/2014/10/local-client-base-under-fatca-credit-unions-in-canada-an-update/
      I hope we get volunteers to do the other provinces. At present, I don’t have time to take on other provinces and its best done by someone who lives in the province. While the lawsuit is pending, we need to know where to put our money. I am now with the LCB credit unions for the long term and have no plans to ever return to the big banks. I also wonder about the more local banks and perhaps will contact, for example, Canadian Western Bank to see what their FATCA reporting status is.

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    2. WhatAmI Avatar
      WhatAmI

      Lynne,
      Canadian Western Bank is the parent of Canadian Direct Financial, whose website and application form prior to July 1 2014 indicated they only allow Canadian residents as clients.
      I received the following reply in late May 2014:

      We have analyzed our business and determined that CWB/CDF is not eligible under the local client base exception or any other exception under FATCA.

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    3. Lynne Swanson Avatar
      Lynne Swanson

      @WhatAmI:   Thanks.  Where is Canadian Western Bank located.

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  43. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    Someone e-mailed me that another BC credit union should be checked out CCEC (http://www.ccec.bc.ca/)
    He says:

    they are the very best one as they absolutely hate FATCA and will likely refuse to cooperate in any event

    A search of their website did not give me any information on FATCA.

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  44. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    CCEC has now updated their website and reports:

    CCEC is a small credit union and is exempt from the FATCA reporting requirements.

    Thanks to ChearsBigEars for bringing this to my attention.

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  45. JoellaP Avatar
    JoellaP

    Maxa Financial, an online Manitoba credit union mentionned by WhatAmI, is now asking about US birth and taxpaying status on it’s application form.

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  46. PatCanadian Avatar
    PatCanadian

    Good to see the information keep coming in on credit unions and banks. CCEC is a great find. I like seeing FATCA information on an FI’s website so we know where they stand on the issue. Thanks all.

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  47. WhatAmI Avatar
    WhatAmI

    I finally heard back from the last of the 9 credit unions that I polled (in May 2104!) about FATCA reporting. These all have high-interest savings accounts (1.8% to 2.1%) and are available Canada-wide. Many are Manitoba-based with unlimited balances being provincially insured (not limited to the CDIC $100K), many have good online access, cheques, low or zero fees, electronic transfers, GICs, TFSAs, Canada-wide “Ding-Free” ATMs, etc. More details can be found from the links here:
    https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/
    All of the nine only allow Canadian residents to hold accounts, but only three of the nine are FATCA-free as “Registered Deemed Compliant Foreign Financial Institution – Local Client Base”. I originally expected a much higher number to be exempt!
    FATCA-free:
    Accelerate Financial (and their parent, Crosstown Civic Credit Union)
    Achieva Financial
    Implicity Financial
    FATCA-reporting:
    Canadian Direct Western (aka Canadian Western Bank) (Edmonton)
    Outlook Financial
    Peoples Trust
    Hubert Financial
    Maxa Financial (originally said FATCA-free but in the end are reporting)
    Bridgewater Bank (Calgary)

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    1. PatCanadian Avatar
      PatCanadian

      @WhatAmI
      Thanks for this continuing coverage of the Credit Unions. It’s great to see that some are Canada wide and FATCA free. I hope people in other provinces will do more research on this very important subject.
      I have found it quite rewarding to do business with the FATCA free credit unions in BC and do not think of ever going back to the big banks. Although now I am “simply Canadian” and no longer a US person, the willingness of the big banks and some credit unions to hand people over to the IRS is a big turnoff.

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  48. Lynne Swanson Avatar
    Lynne Swanson

    Thanks WhatAmI for doing that. That is a big help. I am still hoping others may be willing to do for other provinces what you and PatCanadian have done.
    Is there anyone out there who is willing to do that? Is there anyone who is willing to merge this information into one record?

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    1. CDN Avatar
      CDN

      This is relatively old news but Alterna and Pace announced plans to merge last April. The resulting entity, operating under their individual banners, would have combined assets of $4.1
      billion with 39 branches and 140,000 members . Pretty big! I’m not sure if that would have any effect on Alterna’s reporting status. I emailed Pace at the end of December regarding their status and received no response. Just wondered if anyone has opened an account at Alterna lately and what kind of paperwork they encountered.

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  49. George III Avatar
    George III

    Lynn, Can you please ask the various lawyer whether Computershare Canada, the transfer agent for most corporation and provinces will report information to FATCA? Computershare is a USA company and it store it info in USA, I think Canadian Tire bank does this as well, If you have share with a lot of capital gain and provincial bonds you can just collect you dividend and interest directly instead of being in a brokerage accounts. They will also forward the bond principal when they come due. Provincial payments should never reported and unless you are a controlling owner of a corporation I do not think dividend need to be reported.
    A transfer agent forward dividends and interest if you have the certificates in your name.
    It may be helpful for some people if brokerage firm freezes their assets and ask them to transfer out.

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    1. PortlandPLC Avatar
      PortlandPLC

      George. You’ve asked the same questions many times. It is not up to Arvay et al to answer .
      Computershare will issue T3s and T5s to you with copies to CRA.
      They will report to IRS if they have a W9 on file.

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  50. George III Avatar
    George III

    from Ontario government
    “Domestic (Provincial) Bond Inquiries
    Contact our Transfer Agent:
    Computershare Trust Company of Canada
    100 University Avenue, 9th Floor
    Toronto, Ontario
    M5J 2Y1
    Canada
    General Inquiries: 1-800-564-6253”
    http://www.ofina.on.ca/contactus.htm
    Computershare is the transfer agent for 65% of companies listed on TSX. 300

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